Message 628:
Hi Ron, I have a book on the Thunderbirds called "Diamond in the Sky" which covers them from their beginnings to the late 70's. The helmets range from P-4 types to HGU-33 [[???, Bluelight]] with MBU-5/P. I will try to scan some of the photos for you. Holiday Cheers, Steve Fritts

Message 627:
Hi All, some more on the Thunderbird helmet story, I came across a 1983 image of one of the teams pilots. As they use the 55/P these days, what kind of helmet was used in the early days? I added the picture to this message. Bye Ron

Message 597:
Good evening gents: The attached email was received today from Lt. Tamara Schnurr, Naval Flight Surgeon attached to the Blue Angels, in response to the matter of 02 masks and use of same during Blue Angels flight team demonstrations. Hope this is of interest to all. Cheers, Chris Carey
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Flight Medicine Question
Mr. Carey, Our PAO shop forwarded your questions to me. I will try to provide the answers you need.
We currently use a TACAIR helmet (HGU-33/P) fitted with a boom mic. The MBU-14/P mask is in the cockpit, but is not used during demonstrations. The only time we use O2 masks is during high altitude transits. I hope that helps! Thank you for your interest.
LT Tamara Schnurr
Flight Surgeon, NFDS

Message 593:
Just finished shooting some photos of my friends Thunderbird helmet and flight suit. The photos should look great since the Poloroid test shots indicate an overall excellent view! Took some of the inside leather liner, front, back and both sides of the helmet as well as the flight suit. Now, I'm obligated to return the helmet and bag to it's owner. After speaking to my friend he informed me that Thunderbird team members MOST DEFINETELY wear (MBU-12) oxygen masks and he was a bit surprised that I might have thought otherwise. On well, I'll be the first to admit that I've never really kept up with either flight demo team as they are low on my interest priority. They do have great looking helmets however. Wizzo

Message 589:
Hi all, Last airshow I went to, the TBird pilots, in the F-16, put on their helmets with O2 masks attached, before taxiing out. I was about 50 ft away from the parking area when they fired up. From my viewpoint, they had 'em on before takeoff. Holiday Cheers, Steve Fritts

Message 577:
To Thunderbirds PAO:   Gentlemen:        I have a question for you, concerning standard procedures for Thunderbird shows. My colleagues and I are discussing the matter of whether or not the TB team are required to wear 02 masks during their demonstration flights. I know that back in the early days (50s) it was felt by some that masks obscured important peripheral vision capabilities for proper close formation lining-up during maneuvers, and in any event the 02 was felt not to be needed at low altitude, as well.     The questions have come up: "Do the Thunderbirds make mandatory use of the standard USAF MBU-12/P 02 mask in their demonstration flights?" Further, "Do they go on 100% 02 concentration while doing so, or remain on diluted concentrations?" I vaguely recall an accident some years ago, involving an American flight demonstration team (I think it was a Blue Angel incident and not involving USAF TBs). The flight medicine report stemming from the accident investigation came my way briefly and the question of the usefulness of wearing 02 masks and going on 100% 02 (to enhance systemic cellular oxygenation--particular of the retinal and cerebral tissues during hi-G aerobatics) was raised.     I thereafter (and again vaguely) also recall that flight demonstration team members were required to both wear 02 mask and go on 100% 02 for the prophylaxis effect imparted (this is only a vague, nagging memory--I cannot swear that this is an accurate recollection).     Would it be possible for you to toss these questions concerning use of mask and 100% 02 during flight demonstrations to the Thunderbirds flight surgeon for some answers? I would appreciate your help in resolving this. I seem to recall that at this time, the USAF T-Birds are using MBU-12/P masks during their demonstrations (unsure whether on diluted or 100% 02 concentrations), additionally.     As a former (ex-USAF) life support & aerospace medicine technician (1960s), I presently keep the hand in as a consultant/historian/researcher in hypobaric medicine & high-altitude physiology applications.  Your inputs on this are very much appreciated and will be shared with the colloquium members ; thank you.     Cheers, C. Carey

Message 576:
To: Blue Angels PAO, Pensacola Gentlemen:         I have a question for you, concerning standard procedures for BA shows. My colleagues and I are discussing the matter of whether or not BA teams are required to wear 02 masks during their demonstration flights. I know that back in the early days (50s), the BAs used USN H-4 helmets fitted with boom mics (in standard USN low altitude protocol), as it was felt that masks obscured important peripheral vision capabilities for proper close formation lining-up during maneuvers (and 02 was felt not to be needed at low altitude, as well).     The questions have come up: "Do the BAs currently use the standard USN MBU-14/P 02 mask in their demonstration flights?" Further, "Do they go on 100% 02 concentration while doing so?" I vaguely recall an accident some years ago, involving an American flight demonstration team (I think it was a BA incident and not involving USAF TBs). The flight medicine report stemming from the accident investigation came my way and the question of the usefulness of wearing 02 masks and going on 100% 02 (to enhance systemic cellular oxygenation--particular of the retinal and cerebral tissues during hi-G aerobatics) was raised.     I thereafter vaguely also recall that flight demonstration team members were required to both wear 02 mask and go on 100% 02 for the prophylaxis effect imparted (this is only a vague, nagging memory--I cannot swear that this is an accurate recollection).     Would it be possible for you to toss these questions concerning use of mask and 100% 02 during flight demonstrations to the Blue Angels flight surgeon for some answers? I would appreciate your help in resolving this. I seem to recall that at this time, the USAF T-Birds are using MBU-12/P masks during their demonstrations (unsure whether on diluted or 100% 02 concentrations), additionally.     As a former (ex-USAF) life support & aerospace medicine technician (1960s), I presently keep the hand in as a consultant/historian/researcher in hypobaric medicine & high-altitude physiology applications.  Your inputs on this are very much appreciated and will be shared with the colloquium members ; thank you.     Cheers, C. Carey

Message 574:
A further two cents worth: I vaguely recall, after a flight demonstration team accident some years ago, that there was an effort floated (possibly as a formal directive, but perhaps not) to require all flight demonstration team members involved in shows to wear masks and go on 100% 02 while maneuvering. As I said, this is vague recollection and I cannot swear to any of it as having any absolute truth. Does anyone else recall having heard of this? I know that back in the old days (50s/60s) the Blue Angels did not use 02 masks and did in fact rely on boom mics for communication (masks were felt to limit important peripheral vision capabilities for lining up the aircraft properly in close formation maneuvers). At the time of the accident in reference, there was a separate flight medicine report stemming from the accident investigation of this crash that prompted concerns over systemic oxygenation needs during low-altitude hi-G maneuvering (this how it came to my attention). Hmmmm. Memory fails on this matter, but the accident in question I believe involved the Blue Angels and it wasn't all that long ago. (I am going to check this out further with BA PAO). Christopher T. Carey

Message 573:
Hello, I saw the Thunderbirds a couple of years ago at the Airfete of Mildenhal AB, UK. On the pictures the crew wears the MBU-12 series oxygen mask. I don't have close up pics but I think the masks they wear are the grey MBU-12 mask on this pics but I'm not absolutely sure. Best regards, Sven Scheffers

Message 569:
Hi Wizzo, I just checked some pictures of the T-Birds and the Blues. According to them you are partially right. Only the Blues use the boom mike snapped on the O2 receiver, while the T-Birds, in all the pictures I have and saw, they wear a green MBU-12/P. Please confirm. All the best, Alex

Message 568:
In the show mode, Thunderbirds and I will presume that Blue Angles are the same, do NOT wear oxygen masks or g-suits. The later, g-suits, since they inflate, and while flying an F-16, the pilot rests his hand on his thigh while working his joystick; an inflating/deflating g-suit would be a major PROBLEM while flying in the show mode. Would you believe that I've only attended 4 Thunderbirds shows in my life? With almost 16 years USAF experience and three those were from when I and my aircraft (F-111F) was on static display. Only one visit was to see the Thunderbirds was in 1995 to specifically see my friend preform, what a sight that was!!
Thunderbird pilots while flying airshows do not wear oxygen masks, but boom mics attached to their helmets as do the Blue Angles. In practice mode at the range I have no clue, but will ask if anyone is curious. The HGU-33 is still the flight helmet in use. Do these helmets have oxygen mask recievers?? Good question, I don't know and as many times as I've seen my friends helmet on display in his home, I should know, but again don't recall........I'm more of a combat edge & 1960s partial pressure suit collector.
Did I mention that Thunderbird team members don't have much of a life? Lots of visits to hospitals, schools, and other promo visits? I can speak for one team member whos wife left him... Opps, I won't go there in this venue!!! Well, maybe I can ask my friend to model his gear....... Doubtful! I'm off to bed.........Goodnight all. Wizzo

Message 561:
Steve, your quite correct and good job done for making that phone call to Pensacola NAS! Blue Angels and Thunderbird team members are on their team for two seasons and then rotate out. This keeps an even amount of of experienced pilot ratio to a high degree.
I spoke to my friend earlier this evening and see what particular markings on his flight helmet as compared to a "paint job" from flight suits. His response "daa, I don't know." My friend flew his helmet in the 1994-96 seasons with the Thunderbirds (he's just getting over the ego trip in 2000). Well, not really. Does anyone have a good photo of a Flight Suits Ltd. Thunderbird paint job? Up until I started reading all this, I had considered getting one myself, now I might pass on it as it would not be the real thing.... :-(
Early next week I'll have a chance to get that Thunderbird helmet into my photo studio and shoot some up close and personal photos of it for the club as well as his flight suit. Wizzo

Message 560:
Okay, operating on the assumption that the only dumb question is one that is not asked. Here's what I found out:
First of all the Blue Angels has a really nice web page: http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/pao.htm with a bunch of pictures and interesting information including photographs, pilot biographies etc.
The phone number for the public affairs office of the Blue Angles is (850) 452-BLUE which I think is in Pensacola.
I called the information office who put me in touch with the individual in charge of equipment. This individual (he said his name really, really fast but I think it was Lt Anderson).said the following:
Blue Angels helmets are painted by Flight Suits Ltd. The helmets painted for the aircrew members are not the same as those sold to the public. Without elaborating, he said the real ones are easy to spot.
Every pilot that flies with the Blues Angels is issued a helmet and he uses it for those years he is on the team. Lt. Anderson stated that a pilot may be on the team for several years, so the actual number of pilots who have flown on the team is rather small and hence, the number of helmets floating around.
The pilot has the option of keeping his helmet. There is a tradition within the Blue Angels that when a pilot stands down, his crew chief will have the pilot's helmet put into a special presentation case and presented to the pilot. I gathered that this case has some interesting Blue Angels stuff on it and would probably not be discarded ie would add value and authenticity to the helmet. In a couple of instances, the pilot may chose not to take is helmet withhim. These are donated to the Blue Angels Museum and would not be offered to the public.
The Blue Angels have an autograph signing session at nearly all of their shows and will sign just about anything presented. Lt Anderson stated that replica Blue Angels helmets have been presented, and signed by the team. Lt. Anderson said there is not now, nor has there ever been an official program where autographed helmets have been produced. He went so far as to say that he wasn't aware of anyone actually giving away a real helmet, to anyone. Didn't ask about the program Chris mentioned where replica helmets might be purchased for that purpose.
So: it would appear that a "real" helmet would be hard to come up with. Thats not to say that the replicas wouldn't be a neat thing to have. I'd love to have both the BA and T-Bird replica helmets. Cheers Again Steve N

Message 559:
Per Steve's and Nat's commentary on the flight demonstration team helmets (BA & TBs) matter, this is good information on the subject and thanks to both of you (and others) for shedding some light on a subject that has obviously concerned a lot of collectors (vis-a-vis "authenticity" of a particular flight demonstration team helmet). An additional bit of information, gleaned from a PAO at NAS Pax River: Apparently, the team public relations people also (as might be imagined) take it upon themselves to procure an unspecified number of Flight Suits Limited produced reproductions of the helmets for presentation to various VIPs and dignitaries of superior importance, from time to time. These helmets are painted in the "authentic reproduction" manner by FSLtd (lacking the special marking indicators that are placed on the team-member helmets for actual issue to a pilot, as already referenced) and the PR people may then arrange for the demonstration team pilots (and aviators, for you USN sticklers) and/or ground crew to sign these helmets for presentation to the dignitary in question. Thus, the helmet may not be an actual 'flown specimen', but the signatures on it are authentic. I would not be surprised if a number of these "presentation helmets" show up on the market, now and then, as "dignitaries" are fickle about such gifts and after the initial thrill has worn off, the items may find their way into someone else's hands. Any truly genuine "flown" helmet should have indications of personalisation for the pilot (or aviator's), in terms of having the wearer's name permanently graphic'ed onto it as part of the helmet decoration (and the AC number, as well, I believe). Cheers, Chris Carey

Message 556:
Your very close in what you've said about Flightsuits Ltd. and how they make the team helmets and do custom team helmets for regular customers seeking a replica Thunderbird or Blue Angel helmet. Speaking from the USAF side of things after a REAL team helmet has served its useful lifetime, the option is given to the pilot wether or not to keep it for his own personal momento. Again from what I hear from excellent first hand sources, this is the case 99% of the time, it goes to the pilot. Some helmets I've seen have wound up scavenged for parts, and the rest go into a trash masher. That I've seen first hand in the infamous T'Bird Hanger at Nellis. The same can be said for the team members flight suits. Now, this is not to say that some Thunderbird team members helmets/flightsuits have not wound up in lets say museum situations. One example for the Blue Angles, is in Pensacola, Florida at the Grand Hotel downtown, in the lobby bar, they have an Naval Aviator theme with a nice collection of Blue Angel flight bags and some flight helmets......I don't recall the particular names on the helmet or bags....I'll leave that for someone who is in Pensacola. Plus, I'd rather not speak too much about the Blue Angles as it's not my area of experience..... I've given a lot of thought over the past few years to have my own Thunderbird replica helmet created by Flightsuits Ltd, but alas, as stated before it would not really be "real". Perhaps if my good friend and first hand source is reading this, and if he ever would be the slightest bit interested in giving me his REAL Thunderbird flight helmet that he used during his two years on the team... Well, maybe when pigs fly............ But if you ARE reading this, Christmas is just around the corner!!! DUDE!!!! Nat "Wizzo"

Message 555:
Hey all, this might be a good time to discuss the number of Blue Angel and Thunderbird helmets on the market. I have some information on these but most of it is second hand. Here's what I have been told. Flight Suits Ltd was spawned from Protection Inc when Gentex purchased Protection Inc. Gentex's Western operations was created out of the acquisition and now does most of Gentex's oxygen mask work. In sales literature on their flight helmets, Gentex states that custom paint jobs are available and lists Flight Suits as the point of contact for a custom paint job. I understand that Flight Suits Ltd paints both the Thunderbird and Blue Angels helmets for the teams. They use a fairly expensive paint: Imeron (sic). The Helmets used by the Blue Angels have a Gold paint job and when they take someone for a ride, they have blue helmets for their guests. The gold visors are produced by Siericin. I am also told that a Flight Suits employee can look at a Blue Angels helmet and tell you if it is: 1- real, 2- Issued to the team 3- one of theirs painted for a customer. Here's the rub. Flight Suits will paint a helmet for you, but they will not add a couple of touches that only the real helmets have. One of these touches involves the materials used to create the aircraft number that is applied to the helmet. Don't ask me what this means. If anyone knows, I'd love to hear about this. I have heard very little about how the Navy or Air Force disposes of these helmets but it would be important information for anyone thinking of purchasing one of these helmets. Finally, SInce there are only a couple of members of these teams, why does noone have a helmet that can accurately be traced back to the pilot? It would seem to me that if you had a T-Bird helmet, it would come with some kind of history like: this helmet was flown in 1978 by Billybob Bubba. I have never seen one of these hlmets for sale that was linked directly to a member of the team. It would be interesting to find out what happens to the helmets after the team is done with them. That's my two cents worth. More questions than answers I am afraid. Cheers, Steve N